Deputy Healy questions the Tánaiste with regard to Bank of Ireland, Wilber Ross and his associates blatantly ripping off the Irish public.
Deputy Healy asks if Bank of Ireland fail the ECB stress tests next year will Wilber Ross and his associates be forced to recapitalise the bank or will the Irish people be forced to do as they have in the past?
And finally Deputy Healy asked if the Tánaiste would not agree that the only solution that protects the citizens of this country when recapitalisation is required is nationalisation.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
In April 2013, on Bloomberg TV, Wilbur Ross, the American vulture capitalist, described Bank of Ireland as his best investment anywhere in the world during the financial crisis. In July 2011 the Government sold State shares in Bank of Ireland to a consortium of North American vulture capitalists for €1.123 billion. The effect of the sale is that the State now owns 15% of Bank of Ireland’s shares at a net cost of €4 billion, while these vulture capitalists own 37% at a cost of €1.123 billion. The fire sale of Bank of Ireland shares has handed Wilbur Ross and his wealthy associates a capital gain of €2 billion. No wonder he was celebrating on television. They are onto a sure winner in the future. The value of Bank of Ireland is determined by Government support, including the bailout. Crucially, Government policy designates Bank of Ireland as a pillar bank. The lack of competition in the market, with ACC and Danske Bank recently having left and the future of Ulster Bank up in the air, and guaranteed Government support through pillar status are a shareholder’s dream. The pillar banks are now free to rip off customers, small businesses and distressed mortgage holders. In today’s Irish Independent Charlie Weston tells us that the introduction of, and increase in, bank fees and charges will take a further €260 a year from families and €270 million out of household finances in the economy. This is the same bank that is sending letters to distressed mortgage holders, giving them the options of voluntary sale, voluntary repossession or eviction. It is absolutely disgraceful. Is the Government not ashamed of its role in allowing the people to be blatantly ripped off by Bank of Ireland, Wilbur Ross and his associates? If Bank of Ireland fails the ECB stress tests next year, will Wilbur Ross and his friends be forced to recapitalise the bank or will the people be forced to do the same as they have done in the past? Does the Tánaiste agree that the only solution that will protect the citizens of the country when recapitalisation is required is nationalisation?
Eamon Gilmore (Tánaiste; Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
No economy can function without a banking system and banks. When the Government took office at the beginning of 2011, the banks in the country were on the point of collapse. People in this country were taking their money out of the banks and small depositors were crossing the Border to move their money out of Irish banks to put it elsewhere. The Government had to stabilise the banking system in its early stages in office. That is why we moved very quickly at an early stage to the reorganisation of the banking system with pillar banks. The banking system and the country have now stabilised and Bank of Ireland has been able to raise funds and capital on the open markets.
Progress is being made across our banking system. That was a necessary part of the strategy we had to pursue in order to get the country out of the incredible economic hole into which it had been put and which we inherited. As it happens, we are now at the point where we are about to exit the bailout. We are looking at an economy which is growing again, although the growth is modest. We are seeing employment being created in the country at the rate of about 3,000 new jobs per month. We would like to see that accelerated. What we must aim to achieve, now that we have stabilised the banking situation and stabilised what has happened in our public finances, is to drive on to create the jobs, attract the investment, see our economy grow at a faster rate and ensure that the people of this country have jobs, a secure future, a decent income and have decent quality public services. That is our aim and it is what will happen. Stabilising the banking system was necessary and this Government has achieved that. We now have to drive on to get economic growth and jobs and the increased prosperity that will come from a growing economy.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
I have some specific questions relating to the sale of the Government’s bank shares. Is the Tánaiste satisfied that the sale of these State shares to these vulture capitalists was above board and transparent? Is he satisfied with a situation where a senior public servant involved in the sale process and who continued to deal on behalf of the State with banks, including Bank of Ireland, was enabled to take up a very senior post in Bank of Ireland, that post being chief executive, corporate and treasury, Bank of Ireland Group?
Seán Barrett (Ceann Comhairle; Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
The Deputy cannot make allegations here—–
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
I am not making any allegations. It is a fact. I ask the Tánaiste if the promised review of this situation has taken place and what has been the outcome of that review. He promised a review.
Eamon Gilmore (Tánaiste; Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
I am satisfied that the sale of the shares was above board and was transparent. At the period of time involved there was very considerable welcome that the State was able to sell shares in Bank of Ireland. I will not respond to allegations about individuals—–
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
I did not make any allegations.
Eamon Gilmore (Tánaiste; Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
The Deputy did make allegations.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
What about my second question?
Eamon Gilmore (Tánaiste; Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
I am answering the question. I am satisfied that the sale of the shares was above board and was transparent. I am also satisfied that the actions taken by the Government to bring stability to our banking system has been one of the foundation stones on which the recovery of this country’s economy has been built. I wish it were different; I wish we did not have the crisis in the banking system that we inherited and I am satisfied—–
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
Is he satisfied with the role of a senior public servant?
Eamon Gilmore (Tánaiste; Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
I will not respond to allegations the Deputy is making about individuals who are outside of the House. If the Deputy wishes to make an allegation—–
Eamon Gilmore (Tánaiste; Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
The Deputy should stop that innuendo and side of the mouth allegations about people who are not in the House. If he wants to make an allegation about an individual, he should make the allegation and if he is sure enough, he should make it outside the House.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
The Government said there would be a review.
Seán Barrett (Ceann Comhairle; Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
I wish to let it be known to the House that it is a long-standing ruling of the Chair that Members should not comment on or criticise a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable as that person is defenceless against accusations made under privilege of this House. I ask all Members to please note.
Deputy Healy appeals to Taoiseach Enda Kenny to “reverse the cuts on compassionate grounds, and if he won’t reverse the cuts on compassionate grounds”, Deputy Healy asked the Taoiseach to “at least reverse the cuts to act to protect the integrity of democratic system by making good the commitments he made in 2008”, and also asked the Taoiseach if he will “now withdraw the elderly cuts from social welfare bill, from the health bill and from finance bill.”
Seamus Healy TD raising the issues of heat and fuel poverty with An Tániste Eamon Gilmore at Leaders Questions and asks if Government is monitoring winter deaths due to cold weather.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
The Government has cut heating supports, such as the fuel scheme and the free units of electricity, in each of the last three years. In 2011, the number of free electricity units was reduced from 2,400 to 1,800. In 2012, the period over which the fuel scheme operated was cut by six weeks and in 2013, the household benefits package, including the free units of electricity was cut again. Even before these cuts were implemented, it is known there were more than 1,000 additional winter deaths in the Republic. Moreover, it is known the vast majority of such deaths were due to cold-related conditions and that such conditions exacerbated underlying medical conditions such as, for instance, respiratory illnesses. These facts are known on foot of professional research carried out and directed by Professor Goodman of the Dublin Institute of Technology. This research was peer reviewed and publicly funded through the Centre for Ageing Research and Development in Ireland and was launched by the Tánaiste’s colleague, the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte. It is known that before the cuts introduced by the Government, heating costs were significantly cheaper. Over the past three years, gas costs have increased by 22%, 8.5% and 2% in 2011, 2012 and 2013, respectively, giving a total increase of 32.5%. Similarly, the cost of electricity rose by 14.8%, 5.9% and 3.5% in 2011, 2012 and 2013, respectively, giving a total increase of 24.2%. In addition, the cost of oil rose by 18% in 2012 alone.
A recent press release from the Society of St. Vincent de Paul reveals that the increase in energy bills over the past three years has cost €500 per family. This wipes out completely the value of the fuel scheme for 2013-14. The Society of St. Vincent de Paul also revealed that it now spends more than €10 million per annum to provide heating supports for needy families.
tMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
A question please, Deputy.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
Is the Government monitoring the increase in winter deaths due to cold-related conditions caused by the Government cutbacks to heating supports? Does the Tánaiste know how many deaths the cuts relating to heating supports have caused since 2011? Will the Government reverse these huge cuts to needy elderly families?
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Hear, hear.
Eamon Gilmore (Tánaiste; Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
The Government is very much aware of the increase in the costs of fuel and the pressure that is putting on households, families and elderly people. This is the reason a range of supports is in place to support people with the cost of fuel. One thing that is clear regarding fuel, energy and gas is that we in Ireland are receivers. We are receivers with regard to the cost of fossil-based fuels, including oil and gas, and are very open to the way in which the price of such commodities fluctuates on the world market. This is the reason the Government is doing two things on a strategic level. First, it is increasing the generation of renewable energy in Ireland to reduce our dependence on oil and gas and to enable the supply of electricity and energy at a lower cost. Second, the Government is addressing the retrofitting of homes in order that their energy efficiency is improved and the cost of heating them is reduced. Thus far, approximately 250,000 homes have been retrofitted. The Government is particularly concerned that the retrofit scheme would proceed for those households with low incomes. A total of €50 million has been provided to improve the insulation of 25,000 of the least energy-efficient homes over a three-year period and 1,000 of these improvements have already been carried out. Additional funding has been provided to address the retrofitting of local authority-owned homes to improve their energy efficiency. This issue must be considered in two ways. First, the support the Government provides for households through the fuel allowance, for example, must be maintained. In addition, the issue must be addressed at the level of the energy efficiency of the home itself. This is the reason the retrofitting of houses to get higher standards of energy efficiency and thereby reducing the cost of heating the home must be part of what must be done. Ultimately, that is the best way of doing this sustainably over a longer period.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
As usual, the Tánaiste has not answered any question I asked of him.
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Yes, it is disgraceful.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
It is the usual performance in this Chamber and sometimes one wonders whether it is worthwhile to ask any question. The Tánaiste naturally blames the world markets for the increases in prices and while that is well and good, the Government’s response to increased costs has been to cut supports to needy families by cutting the fuel allowance, the free units of electricity and the household packages. The Government has deliberately and knowingly cut heating supports. It is known that cold-related conditions mean additional winter deaths. This policy is an act of social vandalism and is a matter of life and death. Must Members wait until there are more elderly deaths before finding out what is the exact position? Will the Tánaiste answer my question now? As the Tánaiste does not know the answer, will he ask the Central Statistics Office, for instance, together with the Centre for Ageing Research and Development in Ireland, to ascertain how many deaths the Government’s cuts have caused since it came to power in 2011? I again ask the Tánaiste whether the Government will reverse the huge cuts that have taken place over the past three years and for which it is responsible?
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Hear, hear.
Eamon Gilmore (Tánaiste; Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
There are occasions in this House when allegations are made that are seriously over the top.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
Like?
Eamon Gilmore (Tánaiste; Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
The allegation the Deputy has made in this particular case falls into that category.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
Which allegation?
Eamon Gilmore (Tánaiste; Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
No, let us concentrate on dealing with the problem.
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
The Tánaiste did not answer the question.
Eamon Gilmore (Tánaiste; Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
The issue of fuel costs is a matter of which the Government is aware—–
Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
The Government has made it more expensive.
Eamon Gilmore (Tánaiste; Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
—–and which it is seeking to address.
I have set out for the Deputy the way in which we are seeking to do that.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
By cutting the supports.
Eamon Gilmore (Tánaiste; Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
The Deputy has asked me to ask the Central Statistics Office to produce figures for us. We will do that and I have no problem with that. We will ask for advice from anybody who has advice to offer to us in this area. We will listen to what any of the organisations representing older people in this country have to say. We will take advice from wherever we can get it, but there is a difference between hearing that advice, addressing it in a reasonable way and making the kind of over the top hyperbole that the Deputy has just made.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
Which one?
Eamon Gilmore (Tánaiste; Minister, Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade; Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
The Deputy asked whether we would ask the CSO to produce figures for us. The answer to the Deputy’s question – let me be clear on this because he accused me of not answering your question – is: “Yes, we will.”
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
What about my second question? I asked whether the Government will reverse the cuts, but the Tánaiste did not answer that one.
Workers & Unemployed Action 