Deputy Seamus Healy today challenged An Taoiseach Enda Kenny TD on overcrowding at the Emergency Department at South Tipperary General Hospital during Leaders’ Questions, and invited the Taoiseach to visit the hospital himself to see the effect of government cuts first hand.
The number of patients forced to await admission on trolleys at South Tipperary General Hospital emergency department is absolutely unacceptable and is reminiscent of third world conditions.
These numbers have increased from 750 in 2011 to 3100 in 2013. The hospital budget has been cut by almost 25% or €11 million over the last few years and it has lost over 100 staff.
This year 2014, has seen a further €1.7 million cut to the budget.
Over the same period activity at the hospital and patient numbers have increased significantly and the hospital is operating at 120% capacity on an on-going daily basis.
The hospital has been put under severe pressure; staff are working above and beyond the call of duty and despite their best efforts are struggling to provide a safe service.
The on-going situation of overcrowding and trolleys at the emergency department is of particular concern.
In an attempt to solve this situation, Deputy Healy has met the hospital authorities twice recently, the regional health service staff and raised the issue with Minister James Reilly TD and the National Health Service Director at the Oireachtas Committee on Health.
Today Deputy Healy challenged An Taoiseach Enda Kenny TD on the issue at leader’s questions and again will raise the issue with the Minister for Health James Reilly and National Health Service Executive officials at the Oireachtas Health Committee on Thursday.
Deputy Healy fully supports the proposal, from South Tipperary General Hospital for the opening of an additional 12 step down beds at Our Ladys Hospital, Cashel.
This proposal is seen as key to alleviating pressure on the hospital and particularly the trolley situation at the emergency department.
Deputy Healy demanded the opening of additional beds at South Tipperary General Hospital and additional staffing at the emergency department.
These are crucial issues for the provision of a safe and quality service to the public.
Deputy Healy questions Minister Bruton, Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation regarding those in difficulty paying their mortgages and in particular those who do not fall within the guidelines of the insolvency legislation.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
Tá a fhios againn go léir go bhfuil 121,000 morgáiste in iarmharach. Tá 60,000 dóibh sin in iarmharach ar feadh bliain agus tá 33,500 in iarmharach ar feadh níos mó ná dhá bhliain. Tá 30,000 clann ar a laghad i mbaol a bheith curtha amach ach as a tithe cónaithe. Tá imní orm gur tugadh 1,500 cás nua chun tithe teaghlaigh a athsheilbhiú san ceathrú dheireanach de 2013 de réir ráiteas ó FLAC, an t-ionad chúnamh dlíthiúil. Dar le The Irish Times, 14 Eanáir 2014, “banks are sitting on 1,500 repossessed properties.”
An tsamhraidh seo caite, bhí sé ráite ag na saineolaithe go dtagann borradh ar athshlánú gach uile lá. Roimh na Nollag, d’iarr mé ar an Aire Quinn an nglacann sé leis go bhfuil fadhb dháiríre ag baint leis na mílte teaghlach atá ag maireachtáil ar ioncam an-íseal, faoi leibhéal na costais maireachtála agus nach féidir leo leas a bhaint as an bpróiseas insolvency, agus atá i mbaol an teach teaghlaigh a chailliúint. Tá dhá rud déanta ag an Rialtas ba chúis leis an ardú seo. I mí Iúil chuaigh an leasú ar reachtaíocht i bhfeidhm chun é a dhéanamh níos éasca do na bainc teach a athsheilbhiú. Roimhe sin, i mí Mheithimh, thug an Rialtas cead don Bhanc Ceannais na treoirlínte a athrú chun teach a athsheilbhiú tar éis dhá mhí seachas dhá mhí dhéag.
An dtabharfaidh an Rialtas isteach reachtaíocht a chiallaíonn go gcaithfidh na mbainc bunairgid na morgáistí a laghdú go dtí luach reatha an tí do gach éinne? Will the Government bring in legislation to ensure that mortgages will be reduced to the current market value of homes? An gcuirfidh an Rialtas cíos in ionad morgáiste ar fáil mar cheart dlíthiúil? Will the Government make available the mortgage to rent scheme as a matter of law do gach a bhfuil ag maireachtáil faoi bhun na costais maireachtála agus nach bhfuil in ann leas a bhaint as an insolvency process?
Richard Bruton (Minister, Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation; Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
I thank Deputy Healy for raising this issue. Certainly, this is one of the biggest challenges we face in terms of getting over the legacy of the banking crisis, and there are many families trying to cope with this. What is encouraging is that, for the first time, there is a sign that the numbers in mortgage difficulty are beginning to decline. As the Deputy knows, under the guidance of the Central Bank, very strict targets have been provided for the banks and mortgage companies. There is solid progress and engagement between consumers and lenders has already led to 51,000 permanent mortgage restructures, an increase of 6,000 accounts in the last quarter of 2013. There has also been a significant rise in the number of split mortgages from 2,500 when this data series began to 6,200. In addition, the number of mortgage accounts in arrears for greater than 90 days has fallen from 81,000 in the third quarter to 79,000 at the end of December. Therefore, some progress is being made although, clearly, it continues to be a very challenging and difficult area.
The Deputy asked whether it is possible for the Government to introduce new legislation that would allow the write-down of all mortgages to their current value. Very clearly, that would not be possible.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
Of course it is possible.
Richard Bruton (Minister, Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation; Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
In order to write down the value of mortgages on that scale, as these are losses that are not provided for, someone would have to provide capital for the banks to do that. This could run to many billions and, indeed, probably €40 billion or €50 billion would have to be provided in additional capital to do that. The taxpayer has already put €64 billion into the banks and is not in a position to provide additional capital to achieve the sort of write-down the Deputy desires.
Clearly, each case has to be dealt with in a sensitive way and the Government has provided a framework within which that can be dealt with. It has also provided the personal insolvency arrangement whereby people can have a work-out over six years to deal with the problem and come away after the six years with an affordable mortgage while remaining in their home.
On the issue of mortgage to rent, the Government has introduced the option of mortgage to rent in certain social housing cases. There is some take-up on that and I know applications are continuing under that scheme
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
Tá 30,000 clann ar a laghad i mbaol a bheith díbeartha as a teach cónaithe. Tá sé soiléir go bhfuil feall mór á imirt ag an Rialtas ar mhuintir na tíre agus go bhfuil an Rialtas chun dul ar aghaidh leis sin gan stad gan staonadh. Thug an tAire Shatter tuarascáil an ghrúpa saineolaithe os comhair an Cabinet ag moladh gur chóir an próiseas athsheilbhithe a dhéanamh níos éifeachtaí, in other words to make it easier to repossess family homes, trí chead a thabhairt chun execution orders a eisiúint ag an am céanna le hordaithe athsheilbithe. Tá sé seo an-tábhachtach, mar laghdaíonn sé an próiseas do sé mhí eile. This reduces the repossession process by over six months and helps the banks. An ghlacfaidh an Rialtas leis an moladh sin? An bhfuil an moladh sin i bhfeidhm?
Richard Bruton (Minister, Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation; Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
Of course, I acknowledge there have been changes to deal with a number of areas of the legislation in regard to people in difficulties. There has been a suite of legislation, as I said, which includes the introduction of new personal insolvency arrangements to allow for work on this. There was a court case on which the Government acted as a result of the earlier court decisions in regard to some repossessions, and that clearly had to be acted upon.
What we are aiming to achieve in this area is to give people the maximum opportunity to stay in their homes while working out arrangements with the banking system. The Central Bank, as the Deputy knows, is overseeing that process. There is significant progress on that and, indeed, we read in the newspapers this week evidence of the way in which banks are dealing in a more creative way with people in genuine difficulty.
Clearly, every case has to be dealt with on its individual merits. There is not the opportunity, as the Deputy would like, for someone to say that every case must be dealt with exactly in this way, that is, by writing down the value to the market value. Such options are not available to us because the cost of such on the taxpayer would be so enormous.
Séamus Healy (Tipperary South, Independent)
Has the Government agreed to the Minister, Deputy Shatter’s proposal?
Richard Bruton (Minister, Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation; Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
We have to work within the system we have put in place. As I said, it is delivering an increased number of work-outs, restructurings and split mortgages.
In the case we have seen, there has been write-downs and warehousing of certain mortgages. There are mortgage-to-rent schemes and an increasing number of options are being developed. That is the way we need to work through these difficulties and try to keep as many people as possible in their homes on an affordable mortgage.
Deputy Healy questions An Taoiseach with regard to Bank of Ireland, Wilber Ross and his associates blatantly ripping off the Irish public.
Deputy Seamus Healy: The Taoiseach’s and the Government’s ideological commitment to private banking has ripped off the taxpayer and the people. The value of Wilbur Ross’s and his North American vulture capitalist friends’ shares in Bank of Ireland has more than trebled, from €1.1 billion to €3.8 billion. They are now selling 6.75% of Bank of Ireland for €690 million, at a huge profit, while retaining 30%. I raised this issue during Leaders’ Questions on 7 November 2013 when I said:
In April 2013, on Bloomberg television, Wilbur Ross, the American vulture capitalist, described Bank of Ireland as his best investment anywhere in the world during the financial crisis. In July 2011 the Government sold State shares in Bank of Ireland to a consortium of North American vulture capitalists for €1.123 billion. The effect of the sale is that the State now owns 15% of Bank of Ireland’s shares at a net cost of €4 billion, while these vulture capitalists own 37% at a cost of €1.123 billion. The fire sale of Bank of Ireland shares has handed Wilbur Ross and his wealthy associates a capital gain of €2 billion. No wonder he was celebrating on television. They are onto a sure winner in the future.
This is all too true. Not alone had the people bailed out Bank of Ireland, the Government had guaranteed the shares would rise by designating Bank of Ireland a pillar bank. It made no sense. Now in the media Wilbur Ross is lavishing praise on Richie Boucher and the Government. Why would he not? With no risk, he and his partners trebled their investment.
Will the Taoiseach tell the people the truth? Will he tell them that while they were being fleeced in budget after budget, owing to the Taoiseach’s ideological commitment to the privatisation of banking, he has cost them €2.7 billion which has gone straight into the pockets of Wilbur Ross and his North American friends. If a person ran a sweet shop in the way Deputy Michael Noonan handles State investments, he or she would not be long in business. Will the Taoiseach sack the Minister for Finance who proposed this rip-off to the Cabinet – the rip-off of taxpayers and the people – in what was and is a fire sale?
The Taoiseach: The answer to that question is “No.” I was not sure whether the Deputy was going to propose that Anglo Irish should have been made a pillar bank, if one was to follow through on his dissertation. There are two things he should bear in mind. First, the fact that Mr. Ross invested in Bank of Ireland meant there was less of a capitalisation requirement for the taxpayer. Second, there will be no legacy debt attached. When the Minister for Finance brings his memo to the Government with a recommendation to dispose of the State’s element of ownership of Bank of Ireland, the taxpayer will make a profit. Therefore, the taxpayer was saved from further capitalisation of Bank of Ireland and when the Government decides to dispose of its shares, the taxpayer will make a profit. I am no fan of banks. As the Deputy is well aware, what has happened from the point of view of the Government is that it has put in place a set of targets and requirements for banks and the Central Bank: to offer every mortgage holder in distress a sustainable offer by the end of the year; establish the Personal Insolvency Agency; meet the requirement for SME lending; and provide the opportunity to open doors for greater access to credit in order that people can do business and create jobs.
The answer to the Deputy’s question is that the Minister for Finance will not be sacked; the taxpayer will make a profit on the disposal of the shares we own in Bank of Ireland.
Deputy Seamus Healy: I thank the Taoiseach for his response, but, once again, we have heard the usual smoke and mirrors blather. The fact is that the Government’s ideological commitment to private banking has gone even further. As bad as the Wilbur Ross affair was, the taxpayer has been ripped off again, as recently as December 2013. This happened when Bank of Ireland was unable to call or buy all of the preference shares held by the Government. On that occasion the Government voluntarily sold the excess shares to a third party at a knockdown price to facilitate the bank. The Government rushed deliberately to complete that sale before 31 March 2014, when those shares will be worth an additional €325 million. In addition, the whole operation meant the State’s share in the bank was reduced by another €100 million. The Government, therefore, lost €425 million in the deal. How can the Taoiseach continue to support a Minister for Finance who has stood over such a rotten and shameful deal for the taxpayer?
The Taoiseach: As I pointed out, we cannot have a functioning economy without functioning banks. When the Government was elected to office, we had a banking system which was completely dysfunctional, had gone off the rails and required radical restructuring. This happened with the putting in place of the pillar bank system.
The Deputy asked if the Minister for Finance would be sacked. The answer to that question is “No.”
(Speaker Continuing)
[The Taoiseach: Information on Enda Kenny Zoom on Enda Kenny] We have a duty to the Irish taxpayer to see—–
Deputy Seamus Healy: The Taoiseach is standing over that.
The Taoiseach: —–that money paid into banks can be recovered to the greatest extent possible given the catastrophic economic mess left by those who went before us.
Deputy Seamus Healy: Shame.
The Taoiseach: In the case of Bank of Ireland the fact that Mr. Ross invested in the bank meant that the Irish taxpayer had to put less money into the bank than it might have had to do.
Deputy Seamus Healy: When did the Taoiseach sell shares for €425 million?
The Taoiseach: When the State, on the recommendation of the Minister for Finance, decides to dispose of its equity there the taxpayer will make a profit. That is our commitment, our duty and responsibility to the Irish taxpayers not to leave them at a loss, given the scale of what was inherited here.
Deputy Willie O’Dea: It was €3 billion less than the Taoiseach would have paid.
Link to Leader’s Questions 07 November 2013 as referenced today by Deputy Healy http://wp.me/P1Uvd5-ud
Seamus Healy TD 087-2802199
Leaders Questions to the Taoiseach
Healy Says Families on Housing Lists Being Abandoned and calls on Government to Build Social and Affordable Houses
Deputy Seamus Healy: There is a social and affordable housing crisis. More than 100,000 families are languishing on local authority housing waiting lists. These families cannot afford to buy or build their own homes and cannot access mortgages. In addition, because the Government has slashed the income limits to qualify for local authority housing, thousands of other families cannot get on those lists, cannot access mortgages and are condemned to private rented accommodation for the rest of their lives.
Social and affordable house building by local authorities and voluntary housing agencies is almost non-existent. The local authority house building budget was decimated by the Government, down from €367 million in 2010 to €65 million in 2013. Similarly, the voluntary sector budget was reduced from €70 million in 2012 to €55 million in 2013. The local authority social and affordable house building programme has been privatised by the Government, by bailing out landlords and developers, by shoving €500 million of public money into their deep pockets through the payment of rent supplement each year and paying their mortgages over and over again through rental accommodation and leasing schemes.
The ESRI has advised that we need to treble the house building programme. We have read that the Government has a draft housing plan. However, based on press reports, it relies solely on financial incentives for developers to build. It also apparently proposes to remove the requirements for builders to provide a proportion of social and affordable housing in each development.
With 100,000 families on local authority housing waiting lists and thousands more who cannot get on those lists, will the Taoiseach ensure direct investment in local authority and voluntary housing agency house building? Are there any proposals in this plan, which the Government is apparently preparing, for such investment?
The Taoiseach: The Deputy has raised a matter of very considerable concern to people. Clearly he and everybody else is aware that during the so-called boom years we built nearly 100,000 housing units when we had a requirement for perhaps 25,000 or 30,000. We are now building 6,500 to 8,000 when we need 25,000 to 30,000. Of course these cannot be provided overnight. I am well aware of the pressure, particularly in city areas on the need for detached housing for families, many of whom are now caught in apartments or rented accommodation that is not suitable.
Considerable work is going on here. The Minister, Deputy Burton, and the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O’Sullivan, have initiated a pilot project in Limerick for the housing assistance payments scheme, which will be of interest to local authorities. That should be in legislation by early summer. On Thursday we will have a meeting of the Cabinet dealing with the construction sector in general, which will be of interest to the Deputy and others. We need to get the construction sector to contribute far more to the economy than it is. It used to be at 24% or 25% and is now down to 6% or 7%, which is much too low.
Clearly Deputies are aware of the pressure on local authorities for social housing. There is a programme in place for this year for the recommencement of local authority housing. There is to be a debate on housing in the Dáil in the next two to three weeks and the Deputy will have his opportunity to make a longer contribution to that with his many suggestions. The Government is conscious of the issue and it will be a feature of what we will discuss at Thursday’s Cabinet meeting.
Deputy Seamus Healy: Based on the Taoiseach’s reply, it is clear the Government’s draft plan is regressive as regards social housing. Obviously it will cater only for those who can afford to buy these houses or get mortgages for them. It will not cater for local authority housing applicants or those who have failed to get on the housing lists because the Government has reduced the income limits significantly. The issue I raise was highlighted today by a family who are protesting outside the office of the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, because of the rent caps that are in place by the Government. That family are constituents of the Minister. This is an urgent matter. It is an emergency situation for the 100,000 families who are on these waiting lists and for those who cannot get on the lists. There must be a huge increase in investment in social housing. There is a real housing emergency and the Government is relying on a wing and a prayer of private developers and the market which failed us in the past.
I again ask the Taoiseach whether he will significantly increase the income limits for local authority housing. The Government has slashed them by half whereby families on less than €25,000 per annum cannot get on those lists. Will the Taoiseach immediately commence a local authority and voluntary agency house building programme to ensure those 100,000 families and the others who cannot get on that list have proper housing?
The Taoiseach: I would be the first to say that the public housing situation is not what it should be. The Minister for Finance has already made it clear that NAMA is offering 4,000 units that are available for housing.
Deputy Seamus Healy: There are 100,000 families on housing lists.
The Taoiseach: Admittedly some of them may not be in the proper locations and some of them may not be committed but it is an offer of 4,000 units.
The social and public housing programme is clearly too low and it is not meeting the demand we have. When Ireland was building 100,000 houses when 30,000 were needed, clearly the private sector area was very expensive, to put it mildly. The housing assistance payments scheme, which will be of interest to local authorities, will be tested in a number of pilot areas beginning in Limerick and should be law by the summer. The question of having more public housing capacity available and the question of income limits will all form part of the discussions and proposals that come from Members on the housing debate—–
Deputy Seamus Healy: Will the Taoiseach increase the income limits?
The Taoiseach: —–and will be part of the Government’s discussions on stimulating the construction sector in the economy generally this week.
Deputy Seamus Healy: Last year marked the 100th anniversary of the 1913 Lock-out, a struggle for workers’ rights. The previous year marked the 100th anniversary of the foundation of the all-Ireland Labour Party by James Connolly and Jim Larkin in Clonmel. In a few short years we will remember the sacrifice of James Connolly and his comrades in 1916. It is more than 125 years since Michael Davitt initiated the Land League campaign against rack-renting landlords.
All of these were movements for the rights, freedom, independence and self-determination of the Irish people. Today the Government is prepared to sell the roofs over the heads of 13,000 Irish people to the modern equivalent of rack-renting landlords, foreign vulture capitalists. A total of 13,000 Irish Nationwide mortgage holders face the appalling vista of their mortgages being sold to these foreign vulture capitalists. These companies are not subject to the Irish regulations put in place to protect distressed mortgage holders. The mortgages are expected to be sold at huge knockdown discounts. Performing mortgages will be discounted up to 30% while distressed mortgages will have discounts in excess of 50%. These companies will be able to squeeze Irish Nationwide mortgage holders, increase interest rates, repossess homes and make obscene profits. The mortgage holders are being thrown to the wolves by the Government.
Deputy Mattie McGrath: Hear, hear.
Deputy Seamus Healy: They are not even being allowed to bid for their own mortgages.
An Ceann Comhairle Sean Barrett: I thank the Deputy and ask him to put a question.
Deputy Seamus Healy: Media reports, rightly in my view, have described this sell-off as pure financial treason and an act of outrageous vandalism. Will the Government reverse the decision to sell these mortgages? Will the Government instruct the IBRC liquidator, as it is entitled to do in law, to stop these sales?
Deputy Joan Burton: Special liquidators have been appointed to oversee the liquidation of the IBRC. This is in law for the benefit of all the creditors of the institution, including the State. The special liquidators, as with any liquidator, must maximise the return, and to do otherwise would leave it open to legal challenge. The process involves the special liquidators conducting a valuation and sale process for all the assets of the IBRC, including the residential mortgage portfolio. They are obliged to ensure they maximise the price obtained.
I understand and respect the Deputy’s concern for the people who have mortgages with the institution. A number of such sales have been carried out and quite a number of Deputies have asked this question of the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance. In those cases a number of the purchasers, although they are outside the State, have adhered to the code of conduct and the guidelines set down by the Central Bank.
Deputy Mattie McGrath: What about Danske Bank?
Deputy Joan Burton: This is exactly what I would expect to happen in this case. Unfortunately, because of the collapse of the banks and what Fianna Fáil bequeathed to us, we have a situation in which quite a number of financial institutions have collapsed.
Deputy Mattie McGrath: The Government is in charge.
Deputy Joan Burton: To get the economy working again fully – we have started the recovery – we must sort out the issues arising from liquidation. I am very confident the mortgage holders will find that, as has happened in previous cases in this respect, the advice and codes of conduct established by the Central Bank will be adopted. Nothing else makes sense, if I may say so, for the purchasers of the mortgages, whoever they may be and whether they are from Ireland or from abroad, because at the end of the day they will want to recover their money. If, as the Deputy suggests, they will buy some of the mortgages at a discount, it will make sense for them to treat their customers very well because it will ensure they recover the money they invest in the deal. This is what has happened in Ireland and other jurisdictions where unfortunately there has been this type of bank collapse followed by liquidation of financial institutions.
Deputy Seamus Healy: Quite clearly, these families are being thrown to the wolves by the Government, because that is what the reply means. It means the Government is reversing the gains made by Michael Davitt and James Connolly, who called for the reconquest of Ireland from foreign landlords and foreign capitalists. The Government is restoring the modern equivalent of the rack-renting foreign landlord and providing them with the modern equivalent of the battering ram. Will the Government extend Irish legal protections to all mortgage holders? Will it allow householders to bid for these mortgages? Will the Government allow the special liquidator, KPMG, and its advisers, PricewaterhouseCoopers, both companies that were highly complicit in the banking crisis, to decide the future of Irish families? The Tánaiste and leader of the Labour Party accused the former Taoiseach, Brian Cowen, of economic treason regarding the bailout of Anglo Irish Bank. The Government is knowingly prepared to sell the roofs over the heads of Irish families to these international vulture capitalists. Is this not also economic treason?
Deputy Joan Burton: The economic treason was probably by the people who brought in the bank guarantee resulting in the disastrous collapse—–
Deputy Mattie McGrath: The Minister’s colleagues in government voted for it.
Deputy Barry Cowen: The Government extended it.
Deputy Joan Burton: —–of a number of banking institutions, as happens, unfortunately, in banking collapses. It gives none of us any pleasure to have to recall very sad history of the party opposite when it ruined the economy and the livelihoods and jobs of more than 250,000 people.
Deputy Dara Calleary: You could do with recalling your own history.
Deputy Mattie McGrath: What about the Labour Party?
Deputy Barry Cowen: And you turned it around. You are doing a great job.
Deputy Seamus Healy: Will the Government allow the people to bid for their own mortgages?
An Ceann Comhairle: Do you mind? Thank you.
Deputy Joan Burton: I am perfectly aware – I understand and I sympathise with people—–
Deputy Dara Calleary: Crocodile tears.
Deputy Joan Burton: —–who are affected by the fact they took out a mortgage, maybe 15 or 20 years ago, with a solid-as-a-rock building society, perhaps specialising in mortgages for teachers or gardaí, but suddenly all of the certainty collapsed with the bank guarantee.
Deputy Seamus Healy: Will the Government protect these mortgage holders?
Deputy Joan Burton: What the Government is doing is sorting out the legacy we inherited.
Deputy Michael McGrath: You are selling them down the Swanee.
Deputy Joan Burton: The Department of Finance is aware of this. We have two previous examples of groups of mortgages being sold—–
Deputy Michael McGrath: It is unenforceable. That is the point.
Deputy Joan Burton: —–and where the interest of the mortgage holders has been treated absolutely consistently with the code of conduct and the other advices of the Central Bank. This is what I anticipate will happen again this time.
Deputy Bernard J. Durkan: Hear, hear.
In light of Irish Water stating yesterday that they will not have charges identified until after the elections despite the Taoiseach stating to the contrary during Leaders Questions on 04 February http://wp.me/p1Uvd5-wN , Deputy Healy again asked the Taoseach this morning:
Deputy Healy asks the Taoiseach the following questions with regard to the introduction of the water charges:
“Where water is not fit for purpose, such as in the case of the 18,000 families subject to boil water notices like residences in my constituency served by the Burncourt regional water supply scheme, will families be charged for water?”
“Where hard water is supplied and is corroding electric kettles, shower heads, washing machines and dishwashers, as is the case across the northern part of Clonmel, will the families be charged for water?”
“A huge number of premises will not be metered before the introduction of the charges. How will the bills for these families be calculated?”
“What will be the free water allowance? Will larger households get a larger free allowance of water?”
“Where individuals have special needs for extra drinking water, will the extra amount be free?”
“Will individuals with medical conditions requiring frequent use of toilet facilities, for example those suffering from incontinence, prostate problems or Crohn’s disease, be provided with extra free water for sanitation?”
In addition Deputy Healy asked the Taoiseach if he had misled the Dáil last week, reminding the Taoiseach of his reply which is on the Dáil record, or had Irish Water mislead the Dáil Environment Committee yesterday.
Deputy Healy asks the Taoiseach the following questions with regard to the introduction of the water charges:
“Where water is not fit for purpose, such as in the case of the 18,000 families subject to boil water notices like residences in my constituency served by the Burncourt regional water supply scheme, will families be charged for water?”
“Where hard water is supplied and is corroding electric kettles, shower heads, washing machines and dishwashers, as is the case across the northern part of Clonmel, will the families be charged for water?”
“A huge number of premises will not be metered before the introduction of the charges. How will the bills for these families be calculated?”
“What will be the free water allowance? Will larger households get a larger free allowance of water?”
“Where individuals have special needs for extra drinking water, will the extra amount be free?”
“Will individuals with medical conditions requiring frequent use of toilet facilities, for example those suffering from incontinence, prostate problems or Crohn’s disease, be provided with extra free water for sanitation?”
Deputy Seamus Healy: The Water Services Bill provides for the introduction of water charges and it was guillotined and bulldozed through the Dáil before Christmas. It was supported by the Labour Party and a Labour Party Tánaiste who built his career on opposition to water charges.
Deputy Timmy Dooley: Now he is cutting the property tax.
Deputy Seamus Healy: Be that as it may, in a few short months we will have water charges imposed by this Government. There are many unanswered questions and I hope the Taoiseach can provide answers to the House and the public this evening. Where water is not fit for purpose, such as in the case of the 18,000 families subject to boil water notices like residences in my constituency served by the Burncourt regional water supply scheme, will families be charged for water? Where hard water is supplied and is corroding electric kettles, shower heads, washing machines and dishwashers, as is the case across the northern part of Clonmel, will the families be charged for water?
A huge number of premises will not be metered before the introduction of the charges. How will the bills for these families be calculated? What will be the free water allowance? Will larger households get a larger free allowance of water? Where individuals have special needs for extra drinking water, will the extra amount be free? Will individuals with medical conditions requiring frequent use of toilet facilities, for example those suffering from incontinence, prostate problems or Crohn’s disease, be provided with extra free water for sanitation? These are some of the many questions still unanswered. The public and the House have a right to know the answer to the questions. I hope the Taoiseach answers the question.
The Taoiseach: Deputy Seamus Healy has made the case for the introduction of Irish Water or the Irish water board. In 2014, we cannot continue with 18,000 families having to boil water and having boil water notices issued to them on a regular basis. That is not on anymore. We cannot have a situation where up to 1,000,000 homes are the subject of intensive inquiries from the Environmental Protection Agency because of the inadequacy of the water system, nor can we have 40% of water produced, which the people pay for, leaking into the ground. As an example, some 60,000 litres of water leaked away from one house in Galway last year. This is not sustainable.
Given the extent of rainfall we have naturally, this should not be the case. If people are not in a position to consume the water that flows through the pipes, it cannot be allowed to continue. In the next couple of weeks, the Government will bring to the House the financial and structural model under which Irish Water will operate and it will include a very clear analysis and presentation of how this will operate, the extent of the charges that will apply, the follow through on the use of an allowance of water and the charge thereafter. The Government has taken this into account. It is in the interests of Irish Water being able to operate as a semi-State entity and being able to borrow money on the open market for real investment in the network of piping that is being retained in public ownership so that people do not have to boil water and so that we do not have 1 million houses under threat and so that businesses can say they will have an adequate supply of pristine, high-quality water. In all my time in here, I have listened, year after year, to people speaking about leaking pipes, asking why there is not a national scheme to fix it once and saying that, for a country that is able to build the rest of the world, surely we should be in a position to provide adequate water for people, consumers and businesses. This is putting in place a structure to carry us through the next 50 years. That is the reason for Irish Water and the financial and structural business model will set out all the details in the coming weeks.
Deputy Timmy Dooley: What about group water schemes?
Deputy Finian McGrath: Like the Cabinet, it is full of leaks.
Deputy Seamus Healy: As usual, the Taoiseach has answered none of my questions. I asked policy questions for the Government, not questions for Irish Water, the regulator or anyone else. We can only assume that, by refusing to answer questions, the Taoiseach is kicking the issue down the road beyond the local and European elections. Is the Taoiseach aware of the European right to water campaign, which believes that water is a human right, as does the United Nations? The campaign includes 1.5 million European citizens who have signed a petition calling on the European Union to legislate to ensure all member states vindicate the right in laws. The vindication of the right is an obligation of sovereign governments. Will the Government support the call of the 1.5 million European citizens for an EU directive enforcing the principle? Will the Taoiseach instruct the Government’s representatives to be present at European Parliament hearings on 17 February and to support the call? Will this country be shamed again like we were in 2010, when the previous Government of Fianna Fáil and the Green Party abstained on the issue at the United Nations?
Deputy Patrick O’Donovan: Was Deputy Finian McGrath a member of the Government at that time?
Deputy Finian McGrath: No, I was not there that time.
The Taoiseach: I accept the Deputy’s challenge in the assumption that this will be kicked out beyond the local and European elections. I have always been a believer in explaining to people what is involved so they know in advance.
Deputy Timmy Dooley: Was that a conversion over the weekend?
Deputy Micheál Martin: What will it cost?
The Taoiseach: The Deputy can take it from me that the Government will before the local and European elections present its business and financial model so people can know what is involved in the very same way as we determined the property charges.
Deputy Seamus Healy: The Taoiseach has answered none of the questions.
Deputy Michael Noonan: So those opposite will have to stop making up stories.
The Taoiseach: The fact that something becomes a human right does not mean it is always free. The Deputy’s assertion is that this is some kind of political camouflage that will end beyond May. Deputy Healy can forget that, as the matter will be dealt with upfront and in advance so that people will know about it. The business and financial model to be produced here in a couple of weeks will set out the structure, method, allowance and the charge that will apply, so everybody will know in advance what it will be. The Deputy should understand that the charges which drive this are in respect of the Irish consumer and not Uisce Éireann, the people who work for Uisce Éireann or anybody else. This will be driven by consumer needs and requirements.
We are talking about providing an opportunity for the next two generations to have a system and supply of water that stands up to the needs of a modern country. We cannot go on with the business of 40% of produced water leaking into the ground. We cannot stand on doorsteps and say that we are so incompetent that we must continue to boil water or that 1 million homes are under threat because of irregular and inadequate supplies. It is time to end all that and put in place a basis for a supply of water of which every person in the country can be truly proud. The charges will be driven by the requirements of the consumer and not anybody else.
